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Swordmage Rage

 
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Will



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 395
Location: This Very Ring

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Swordmage Rage Reply with quote

Hey Nik, remind me again why you think the Swordmage is out of control. I just looked it over, and it doesn't seem too crazy to me....

-Will!
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Glammo



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Finding paths and breakin' hearts

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Idunno. That teleportation attack is a level 27 encounter power. So it's supposed to be uber.

Hmm... some of its at-wills are versus non-AC defenses. Holy crap... and one that affects everyone adjacent to you. That definitely out-cleaves cleave. Oh... except it does 1d6+Int, not [W] damage. The lightning lasso does look powerful, though. The Greenflame Blade uses a different stat to do "cleave" damage, but it's still cleave-like damage. I forgot what else fighters do.

It definitely looks like a strong class. Whether it out-fighters the fighter remains to be seen.

Maybe I'm missing something else. Nik?
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Will



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 395
Location: This Very Ring

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, it looks like a strong class, but I'm not sure it's insane.

I want to know what the "Swordmage Warding" class feature is. It would have to boost AC pretty hard in order to let the Swordmage compete with the Fighter in terms of not getting stabbed, given the former's shitty armor proficiencies and lack of a shield.

Anyway, the class also has a bit of multiple-ability dependency going on -- Int, Con, and Str -- so the money abilities seem likely to be the ones that are fully powered by Int. It's entirely likely that the powers that deal Str in splash damage won't be that impressive in practice. The Swordmage may be dealing 1 hp of damage to all adjacent enemies with greenflame blade, but the Fighter's doing 3 hp to a single adjacent enemy with cleave. Probably a wash.

In the end, NEED MOAR INFO PLZ.

-Will!
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quakemonkey



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Location: at 4e's house, drinkin tea

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yeah, Idunno. That teleportation attack is a level 27 encounter power. So it's supposed to be uber.


Not something I thought was too powerful. The teleporting ability that I was talking about is the Swordmage Aegis "aegis of assault". You choose this one or "ageis of shielding", not sure if you can switch off or what. Aegis of Assault allows the you to mark a target and if it attacks someone else, you get to teleport (up to 10 squares I think) to the target and wack it. This is strong because, unlike other class marking abilities, the swordmage's mark consequence resolves even if the marked critter runs out of reach.

Quote:
Hmm... some of its at-wills are versus non-AC defenses. Holy crap... and one that affects everyone adjacent to you. That definitely out-cleaves cleave. Oh... except it does 1d6+Int, not [W] damage.


I wasn't talking about this one, though it is also kinda crazy strong, it does 1d6 rather than 1d8 or 1d12, but it hits everything around you...I'd rather do 5-10 damage to everything than 5-16 damage to one, in certain situations at least. The power I thought was bull was the Green Flame Blade. It is cleave, only on steroids.

Quote:
It definitely looks like a strong class. Whether it out-fighters the fighter remains to be seen.


True and don't forget the poor pally : ( just kindin, paladins can heal! yea!

Quote:
It's entirely likely that the powers that deal Str in splash damage won't be that impressive in practice. The Swordmage may be dealing 1 hp of damage to all adjacent enemies with greenflame blade, but the Fighter's doing 3 hp to a single adjacent enemy with cleave. Probably a wash.


I disagree as the real point of cleave and greenflames is to deal with minions, so even 1 damage is sufficient. Not to mention it even out does the mage a bit, cuz if you hit your target, everything takes damage, you don't have to roll to hit each one!!!! ROAR!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Anyway, the class also has a bit of multiple-ability dependency going on -- Int, Con, and Str -- so the money abilities seem likely to be the ones that are fully powered by Int.


Int and Con are the main needs. Don't really understand why Str was listed in the expert and not Dex, seems to be a high Dex is more important that a high Str (+1 would be fine). Of course there are many more abilities to be seen so who knows. Oh I do, me!!

Quote:
I want to know what the "Swordmage Warding" class feature is.


It's +3 AC if one had is free or +1 AC if using shield or two-hander, etc.

I've found some additional write ups, not sure how official they are, but they look real. It seems that the swordmage's weakness is it's AC. Depending on the race you pick, this is true or not. If you take Eladrin (uber broken race that this class was obviously built for) your AC will be just fine. 10 + 2 (leather) + 3 (Swordmage Warding) + 2, 3, or 4 (dex) = 17, 18, or 19 AC, not bad for leather and still having a 18 Int, plus no armor check penalties, no movement penalties, and the ability to control like a defender and clear minions like a mage, albeit at close range only. Not to mention that they can effectively mark two targets per round (Ageis of you choice and Booming Blade (if target moves away from you they take damage)).

I feel like they are less powerful now that I see what their AC could end up being. If you are not an Eladrin or if you use a two handed weapon than your AC would be more like 16 to 18 depending on Dex (assuming you want to keep a high Int). I believe that Int and Con are the most important to them, though I find it strange that Dex is not also included as being important in the write up. I'm gonna wait until the real full class is out before really deciding one way or the other, but I feel like they are less uber now, though still really strong, if supported (which is how it should be).

I had trouble falling asleep last night thinking about all the things in 4e that drive me crazy. I still prefer it to 3.5, but i have game design questions that need answers!!


Last edited by quakemonkey on Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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Will



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 395
Location: This Very Ring

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You make a good point about greenflame blade. It is a bit "controllerish" for a defender, but I'm still not sure it's uber.

Swordmages don't need Dex, because Int applies to AC now (remember?).

Hmm.

Also, why are eladrin uber-b0rken?

-Will!
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quakemonkey



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Location: at 4e's house, drinkin tea

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will wrote:
You make a good point about greenflame blade. It is a bit "controllerish" for a defender, but I'm still not sure it's uber.

Swordmages don't need Dex, because Int applies to AC now (remember?).

Hmm.

Also, why are eladrin uber-b0rken?

-Will!


What!!!!!! I forgot!!!! Int = AC!!!!! ROARY ROAR ROAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That means they can get an AC of like 20!!!! Freakin A!

I don't have time to flip out about eladrin right now. I'll have to do it later or on Sat!

Swordmage = broken again!!!!

edit: eladrin may not be uber broken, but i think they are a bit strong or more to the point, humans, tieflings, and maybe half-elves/halflings (not sure have to look again) need a boost.

Arggg...
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Glammo



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Finding paths and breakin' hearts

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to play one! Very Happy

OOH! I wonder if we can break anything with the Half-Elf's dilettante ability.
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quakemonkey



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Location: at 4e's house, drinkin tea

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking forward to the new books (FRPG = the swordmage) coming out next week. Should be cool stuff. I've really liked the material that's come out in the Dungeon and the Dragon e-mags. I'm gonna write them an email demanding stuff too, since I'm sure they will appreciate the thoughtful rules insight I have to offer.
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quakemonkey



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Location: at 4e's house, drinkin tea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read some more things and I think that my rage (towards 4e in general) was mostly based on ignorance. 4e is the nectar of the gods, the very essence of life itself, a 1,000 monkeys typing a 1,000 wpm would only be able to produce a game half as perfect.
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quakemonkey



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Location: at 4e's house, drinkin tea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will wrote:
You make a good point about greenflame blade. It is a bit "controllerish" for a defender, but I'm still not sure it's uber.


if you have to deal with minions it is uber. At least for now, i'm sure later classes will come out that will raise the uber bar, but for now this is pretty uber minion wise.
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Glammo



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Finding paths and breakin' hearts

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. but the minions still have to be clumped together for that to work. Thus, improved initiative might be a good feat.
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Will



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 395
Location: This Very Ring

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quakemonkey wrote:
if you have to deal with minions it is uber. At least for now, i'm sure later classes will come out that will raise the uber bar, but for now this is pretty uber minion wise.

You're just sore 'cause you can't hit a minion with both hands and a laser sight.

ROARY ROARY ROAR!

-Will!
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quakemonkey



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Location: at 4e's house, drinkin tea

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NERD RAGE!!!!!!!!!


edit: oh yeah also, fighters don't start being able to use plate! Talon must be retrofitted into scale!!! i hate dnd!!!!! (and reading)
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